Kiwi Ears - Orchestra Lite

I think endgame is whatever you deem to be the pinnacle of the sound that you like. I have a pair of Campfire Ponderosas which were £800 give or take but I later bought a pair of Kiwi Ears Orchestra Lites for about £260 which, in my opinion, are significantly better. So for me endgame is £260, but for you it may be something else entirely.

Orchestra lite not being in the list is heresy

I haven't tried those but I do have the Kiwi Ears Orchestra Lite and those are touted as having wide soundstage and the Tea Pros sound more wide than those to my ears.

I've never tried the Blessing 3 so I don't want to comment regarding them. The Tea Pro is an excellent IEM. It has excellent imaging and good sound stage for an IEM. I've tried quite a few IEMs thanks to Amazon's return policy in the US. I do own these IEMs: Kiwi Orchestra Lite and Quintet Raptgo x HBB Hook Aful Performer 5 The Tea Pro is by far the best IEM I've tried.

I went from the EM6L > Kiwi Ears Quintet > Orchestra Lite > Tea Pro > Monarch MK3. I head a difference with every step up. I prefer the Quintet over the Tea Pro because the Tea Pro treble is darker and smoother and sounds less detailed imo. The Monarch MK3 is just absolutely amazing imo. I hear details in songs I've never heard before. The detail in every aspect is just amazing, and they're fun to listen to. They also do some black magic with soundstage and imaging. The MK3 sounds bigger than some openback headphones I've owned.

I have the Hype 4 and Orchestra Lite and enjoy them both a lot. The Hype 4 are very technical and detailed whilst still being smooth. The bass hits hard and goes deep and the mids are also great. The Orchestra Lites are much smoother and warmer. Really lush and you just get lost in the music. I put a 5db bass shelf at 180hz and works great, just gives them enough and I personally love drums on ba sets. They also have a noticeable large soundstage. So to compare Hype 4 highly technical yet still smooth with a bit of excitement and bass goes deep, slightly more critical listening. Orchestra Lites smooth, lush, envelope and you just listen for hours. Both for my small ears are decently sized Iems but still fit fine. Orchestra Lite is unvented so you'll get suction cup with sticky tips (personally doesn't both me), but sancai tips negate this, also gives them much better sound isolation.

Kiwi Ears Orchestra lite, excessively smooth, dark, blunted and low res. Sounds very cheap.

I've had unvented all BA IEMs before, like the Moondrop S8, Ibasso AM05, Tansio Mirai TSMR 3 Pro, and they all sound great/fine. Orchestra Lite just sounds so dull and blunt to my ears. Pressure build up doesn't bother me as much, especially when I use Tangzu's san cai tips.

I have the Kiwi Orchestras you linked and I love them. I have been exclusively using IEMs for 10+ years and these are the best option at their price point. IMO they punch far above their weight class too. I have had more expensive IEMs that did not sound near this good. my single complaint about the Kiwi is that they can kinda hurt my ears if i wear them for like 8 hours straight. But thats pretty rare.

Hisenior cano cristales maybe? Jk i like the faceplate tho Well i think you should try cheaper iem. Price is in order > Sgor Luna>KZ PRX>Artti t10 (planar) Tanchjim one>Tin Audio T2>Truthear Hexa>Truthear Pure (Neutral) Tangzu wan'er SG>Tanchjim Bunny>Celest Wyvern Black/Abyss>Simgot EW300 DSP>Aful Explorer (Warm) Or cheap Bone conduction iem like KBear KB02 Edit: And if you like Kiwi Ears they have plenty of good iem like the Septet, Astral, orchestra lite

Kiwi Ears Orchestra Lite and Xenns Mangird Tea Pro

So I actually kinda bought a ton of IEMs to answer this question too. I was trying to find something that works for voiceover, for mixing, for critical editing, and for checking how mics sound in reviews. If I had to choose under $300, here’s my categories: * Mixing: Neutral enough to translate well on different setups (HD6xx, speakers, etc.) * Critical editing: Can it expose bad audio or does it hide flaws? * Monitoring: How good it is for hearing your own voice accurately. * Enjoyment: Just how fun it is to listen to. Letshouer Galileo Mixing: Excellent Critical Editing: Excellent Monitoring: Excellent (voice literally sounds just like me when monitoring) Enjoyment: Low Moondrop Blessing 2 / Blessing 3 Mixing: Excellent Critical Editing: Excellent Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: Low (pretty harsh, basically MDR-7506s in IEM form) Zigaat Lush Mixing: Excellent Critical Editing: Below average unless you crank the volume on sibilant spots Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: Good

Etymotic ER2XR / ER4XR Mixing: Below average (soundstage is too 2D) Critical Editing: Excellent Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: Okay Crinacle Daybreak (surprisingly) Mixing: Depends—more “Meta” neutral than Etymotic-style Critical Editing: Excellent (picks up sibilance like crazy, great for catching issues) Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: High Xuan NV (big surprise) Mixing: No, too much bass Critical Editing: Excellent (vocals are super accurate for both male and female) Monitoring: Iffy—low impedance can be weird with interfaces like the MOTU M2 Enjoyment: High Thieaudio Legacy 2 Mixing: Excellent Critical Editing: Excellent Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: Decent Cadenza 4 Mixing: Excellent Critical Editing: Excellent Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: Excellent Orchestra Lite Mixing: Excellent (surprisingly neutral—not bright like Blessing 2/3, not warm like Dusk or Lush) Critical Editing: Excellent Monitoring: Excellent Enjoyment: Excellent Basically the Studio4 but more revealing with sibilance instead of smoothing it out. Hexa I don’t really recommend it—too many fit issues and inconsistent impressions. If you do try it, use wide-bore tips (not narrow). Video explaining why: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x-T8el9fbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x-T8el9fbs) Hope this helps.

Orchestra Lite is warmer than stuff like Blessing 3, Blessing 2, Tanchjim Origin. Warmer than Hexa. Warmer than ER2xr/ER4xr. But not as warm as Truthear Pure, Volume S, Dunu Kima 2, S08, Zigaat Lush. It's sort of smackdab in the middle. It reminds me a bit of the Studio 4 but if STudio4 had sibilance :P

Softears Studio 4 (better for female vocals, ie kpop) Xuan NV (great for male and female vocals. Imo better than Truthear Nova. But soundstage is lacking on Xuan NV). But it's a hell of a deal for $67. Great artwork box. Great eartips (usually 20 bucks). Great cable. Great sound. Kiwi Ears Astral (better for female vocals. But no penalty for male vocals) Kiwi Ears Orchestra Lite (better for female vocals) Cadenza 4 (great all-rounder) Juzear Defiant (at least the unit I have; mine works fine. Vocals are spot on for male and female vocals.) YMMV but I feel like Zigaat Lush has good vocals too.

Kiwi ears aether. It reminded me too much of the Hexa and I returned it. It's basically a better Hexa. Better soundstage. Toned down on the harshness. Just as joyless. Enjoy. It's imo very neutral. For context (because people define “neutral” differently), here’s my subjective definition of neutral. If you agree with this framing, you’ll understand my recommendation: 1. >!I don't think neutral is old school textbook neutral, ie Etymotic ER2xr!< 2. >!I dont think neutral is JM-1 or Meta. Those sound warm and V-shaped to me. Usually v-shaped!< 3. >!My definition of neutral is wherever the Studio4 lives. Or where the Kiwi Orchestra Lite lives. Those aren't neutral bright like Blessing 3, Blessing 2, Tanchhjim Origin. But they aren't warm like Truthear Pure, Dunu SA6 Mark 2, Zigaat Lush. And they aren't warm-ish like Mega5EST, Explorer, Dunu Kima 2, RSV Mark 1, IER M9.!< >!It's neither here nor there. Where the Studio4 lives. The Kiwi Aether is there too. Get the Orchestra Lite over the Aether, it has more joy while still being pretty dead-on neutral imho!<

Ignoring your budget, admittedly. But it's because often the budget isn't realistic in line with what's available. Imo the next step up if you're looking for a neutral Iem, check out the Kiwi Ears Orchestra Lite. It's so precise that every microphone and subtle nuances between each microphone are shown properly. They're incredibly accurate for mixing, monitoring and voiceover editing.

Going to use a grading system: A, B, C, D, F like in school A means excellent B is good C is average D is bad F is absolute fail **Mixing:** Going to avoid using the word "neutral" because then every mofo comes in the thread saying, what's neutral. Let's use the word "even-keeled'. Good iems for mixing are generally more even-keeled. If it has way too much bass you'll thin out your mix. If it's way too trebly and bright and shouty you're going to overcompensate. Ideally you want something more even-keeled. **Enjoyability:** Subjective. But how enjoyable it is **Critical Editing:** This isn't the same as mixing. But it means will it let you know if you have shit audio. If I listen to Kanye's sibilant ass tracks does he sound sibilant on them? If I listen to Lana White Dress is she sibilant on it? She better be. If I watch a DMS video from 6 years ago, does he sound sibilant on it? He better. Because he does. This is important because you need to evaluate your audio and the iem lets you know your audio is shit before thousands of people hear it. Etymotic ERXR Enjoyability: C to B to A. Pretty good, depending on who you ask Critical editing: A+. Very good at letting you know areas of trouble in your audio Mixing: D. Poor soundstage Truthear Hexa Enjoyability: D. I hate it Critical editing: A+ with wide bore tips Mixing: C. Imo actually a bit thin on lowend. You'll overcompensate. Also the soundstage on Hexa is kinda eh ngl. Salnotes Zero Original Enjoyability: C. I think it's ok. Or mid. Critical editing: B. Honestly pretty good at letting you know egregious areas. The version 1 is less forgiving with sibilance than 2, so it's better for critical editing. Zero 2 blunts the sibilance out (better for enjoyers; bad for audio engineers) Mixing: A. pretty neutral imo Softears Studio 4 Enjoyability: A to A+. Very enjoyable IEM Critical editing: D. Ironically. It smooths out all sibilance so you won't know sibilance is there. This is why it's so beautiful sounding. Mixing: A+. Very neutral. I'd even say probably my closest definition of neutral Moondrop Blessing 2 Enjoyability: D (harsh, shouty, bright, sibilant). Same with Blessing 3. Critical Editing: A. These are very picky with harshness in vocals. I genuinely think these are the Sony MDR 7506 in iem form. Mixing: A Zigaat Lush Enjoyability: B to A Critical Editing: C You won't really find problem areas of sibilance. You really really really have to crank it to hear it. Mixing: A. Pretty even-keeled. Kiwi Ears Orchestra Lite: Enjoyability: B to C Critical Editing: A. Excellent at picking out flaws. Mixing: A+. Excellent at telling you the whole picture. Excellent for mixing. Very very even-keeled.

Letshouer Cadenza 4 Enjoyability: A to A+ Critical Editing: B to A Mixing: A. While a bit U-shaped it's not egregious. It's enough to make decisions. Sennheiser IE200 Enjoyability: B to A Critical Editing: D to F (rounds out a lot of sibilance imo, which is actually a good thing for enjoyers). Mixing: B. Kind of shocking but while people call this v-shaped this is actually not as v-shaped imo. If you monitor yourself using these iems it'll sound exactly like you down to the microphone. Most other v-shaped iems don't do that. Crinacle Daybreak Enjoyability: B to A- Critical Editing: A (rofl. It's funny because it genuinely is good at picking out bad audio. If it sounds harsh it's because the original track is harsh) Mixing: B (This is more of a "Meta" tuned iem. But imo just enough where it sounds true) Crinacle Dusk Enjoyability: B to A+ (depending on who you ask) Critical Editing: C on Analogue. F on DSP. It rolls out sibilance by quite a large margin. Mixing: A on analogue mode. Honestly pretty neutral. almost HD600ish. But about a C on DSP mode. Tanchjim Origin Enjoyability: C to A (depending on who you ask) Critical editing: A (it'll definitely let you know spicy regions Mixing: A. A bit bright-slanted but definitely capable for mixing. Theioaudio Legacy 2: Enjoyability: C Critical editing: A+ Mixing: A+ Xuan NV (honorable mention) Enjoyability: A Critical editing: B Mixing: D (too bassy imo) I mention these because imo these are the Audio Technica M50x of iems but the size of 2 quarters. They basically give you accurate vocals down to the tee but thumpy bass. The vocals are very accurate on these. Not good for mixing though. Dunu Titan S (original) Enjoyability: C Critical editing: D (the treble is rounded out quite a bit) mixing: A (these are my imo pretty close to neutral)

Awesome!!! That's actually the one I think is one of the most viable. It'll do everything you asked for :P

They are very good but they are unvented, which is the thing that stops me listening to mine more often. Very resolving and very neutral tuning, although they do lack sub-bass extension.

That sounds like a problem because of it being unvented. I have one and it's probably my favourite tuning of any IEM (although it could do with some sub-bass). But I rarely listen to them, because it's such a pain to get the air pressure to equalise. And if it's not exactly right, they sound very wrong and can have a huge channel imbalance if one side is at a slightly different pressure than the other. None of the words you use are how I would describe it when it sounds right. But getting them to sound right, and continue doing so after moving around, can be more trouble than it's worth. It's put me off buying another all-BA set. I'm going to stick to hybrids with proper venting in the future.

I have them both and the OL is great, but it gives me a lot of issues with pressure because it's unvented. For some reason the MagicOne is mildly annoying but doesn't give me as much of a problem. If you don't get any sort of pressure issues with the MagicOne then I'd say definitely go for the OL, it's probably my favourite tuning of any IEM but I just don't listen to it much because the lack of venting is too bothersome. If I don't fiddle with them for about 2 minutes to get the air pressure just right in both ears, they end up sounding wrong. Then if I move, the seal breaks and I have to start again. The OL and MagicOne are actually somewhat similar in terms of midrange tonality, but the OL has much harder-hitting bass (although it completely lacks sub-bass extension, so drums tend to sound more like anvil strikes than a fully-rounded thud - it's actually good, but definitely a colouration). The OL also has much more extended and more incisive treble. Where the MagicOne has a very "soft" sound, the OL is very sharp and very resolving, without being bright.

Not sure. The only Kiwi Ears I have are the Orchestra Lite (fairly large) and the Cadenza. The Cadenza is fairly small, but has larger than average nozzles (and it's still slightly bigger than the EDC Pro). There's also the KBear KB01 which is a cheaper, 1:1 clone of the Cadenza. Either would be a slight upgrade from the EDC Pro, but not a huge one & probably not worth the cost. You also have the Chu 2 which is small, but it also has pretty bad ergonomics for anyone with small ears. And it's really a sidegrade from the EDC Pro. I prefer it personally, but there's not a huge difference, it's just tilted slightly brighter. For comfort I'd say the IE200 is the absolute best you're going to get, although personally I think the sound is a bit meh for what it costs. It's not bad, but it's probably not going to sound like much of an upgrade from the EDC Pro. Also the stock cable is pretty bad, so it's a good idea to budget another $20 for the OpenHeart one.